I simply cannot think of a title
Monday, May 12, 2008
I have academics on the brain right now. Specifically, my daughters’ future educations.
We used to live up in a Virginia suburb of Washington, DC and I worked for several years as a fundraiser at a very expensive private school. The parents at this school were by and large an intense group of people and they demanded a great deal from their children and the teachers. After all, they were spending a small fortune on their children’s educations and by god they expected some results. As in, admission to an excellent university, preferably an Ivy. Not only did they expect their kids to do well academically, they also kept the children very busy after school — sports, music lessons, language classes, etc. — all so as to pad their children’s resumes. They started obsessing about their children’s future colleges when the children were still in preschool, as they felt quite strongly that decisions made for a four-year-old could have serious ramifications 14 years later.
This situation isn’t exclusive to the school I worked at; it can be found at schools across the DC area and the Washington Post regularly publishes articles on some variation of this theme. I suspect that one could read similar stories in newspapers in New York, Chicago, Boston, and elsewhere.
One of the many reasons we left the DC area and came back down here to Collegetown is that we didn’t want to raise our children that way. We wanted them to have normal childhoods where they could ride their bikes, splash in mud puddles, or lie in a hammock and dream and not worry about how their so-called loafing would affect their later academic success. We wanted our kids to be kids, not obsessing about what extracurricular activities would get them into Harvard.
This weekend, we visited college friends of ours who live in the DC area. They have a child in fourth grade in a magnet school for the gifted and their second child will start in the third grade there next year. As we always do when we get together, we talked about our children’s schools and what they’ve been up lately. As I was listening to my friends talk, I was struck by how intense life is for their ten-year-old — how much homework she has and at how high a level she is expected to perform academically. These are not only the teachers’ expectations, but also the parents’. The parents don’t seem to think it’s unreasonable for their ten-year-old daughter to spend an hour or two on her homework every night. (Studies show that about 40 minutes max would be appropriate for a fourth grader.)
Our friends are already thinking ahead to high school and which one they should choose for their children — the one with the International Baccalaureate program or the one with the Advanced Placement program? This choice would affect their children’s high school educations and, beyond that, could impact where they go to college. Listening to our friends, it became very clear to us that they expect their children to take the most academically rigorous program they can handle and we aren’t certain if the children will have any input into this process.
Pete and I, on the other hand, think differently. For starters, we assume that our children will have a strong role in the process of deciding their educational paths. For example, when Graceful is in 5th grade, she’ll be able to choose whether she’ll take Orchestra, Band, Art, or something else. We expect to discuss those options as a family, listen to Graceful’s preferences, and guide her through the decision-making process. This will be a continuing trend as Graceful, and later on Elegant, go through school, and we want the girls to have a say in how they’ll be spending their school years. Obviously, they can’t choose not to take math or science, but they should at least be able to have choices when possible.
Once the girls are in high school the girls will have to decide if they’ll take Advanced Placement classes. Contrary to our friends’ thinking, Pete and I are of the opinion that taking as many A.P. classes as possible is too much and we’d rather that our girls only take A.P. classes in which they are deeply interested in the subject and want to go as far with it as they can. What we don’t want is a daughter with a full load of A.P. classes and who is so stressed and overwhelmed that she has a nervous breakdown by the time she’s 17.
[For a fascinating sociological study of just how stressed out today's high achieving high school students are, read The Overachievers by Alexandra Robbins. It will blow your mind.]
What we’d really like is for our girls to pursue their interests as they go through school and find out what it is that thrills them. Of course they’ll have to take the basics (English, math, sciences, etc.), but we also hope they’ll also pursue their passions — whether it’s music or art or something else entirely. We want them to do the best that they can academically but we don’t want them to stress unduly over their grades or freak out if they get an A- because it might hurt their chances at Yale.
I personally don’t care if either of my daughters goes to Harvard or Princeton or Yale, and I am trying very hard not to care if they go to the University of Virginia, which is where Pete and I went and which is now a very difficult school to get into. What I hope is that the girls will figure out what kind of school they want to go to and then we’ll work together to find out which ones are a right fit.
As I was listening to our friends talk about their plans for their children’s educations, I didn’t explain our thinking as I knew they wouldn’t understand.
It has occurred to me that perhaps our thinking is off. That by not pushing our children we are instead encouraging them to be mediocre. That is not our intent, but maybe we’re not seeing things clearly.
But I’m curious. What do you think? Are we doing right by our children or are we encouraging mediocrity? That is, perhaps, a strong way to state it, but I think you understand what I’m asking. Let me know your thoughts. I look forward to this discussion.
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1.
Happy Working Mom | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 7:37 am
I am right there with you! I want my kids to be kids. I want them to play, and not know what stress is until they’re older. I look at my husband and I, who graduated from a very poor school system, went to a great state school, and are now happier than ever.
Besides, just getting my daughter to gymnastics and t-ball is stressful enough for me…I can’t take on any more!
2.
Mizmell | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 7:37 am
Mediocre? I think not! There is real value in not having a nervous breakdown at 17…
3.
blackbird | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 8:03 am
I have been muddling through this too.
I never pushed Middle and am thankful that he sees his path (a prestigious art university that I *think* he will be able to get into).
And what will hold him back?
His grades - which I never pressured him about until this year (he’s a junior).
Did I do the wrong thing?
Should I have pushed for him to do better over the years?
I know and see that the kids who’s parents pushed their kids from important nursery school right through to college. And those kids GET IN to those colleges. And those kids do well - or don’t, depending on the kid…
It seems to me that all the pushing in the world can’t change who the child IS once they are at college and some of them succeed and some of them don’t.
I just don’t know.
4.
hotfessional | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 8:07 am
I could have written blackbird’s comment, (except for the art university part….shortman draws like his dad. snirk).
I wonder, personally, how many of those “driven” kids fail miserably because they’re tired of being pushed. I wonder how many jump through hoops to please their parents and then can’t survive without them.
I wonder if my parents (who cared about education, but not at the cost of a childhood) had done things differently, would I have turned out better? Nah.
I think that your daughters will enjoy their lives AND make the best choices for their own education.
5.
mama | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 8:45 am
I was an overachiever in school. I loved school. I did great, took AP’s, and all that. As an adult, I realize that it’s not that I was so “gifted,” but that I was very, very good at doing school and taking tests. Those skills may or may not translate into the ability to be a successful, happy adult.
As an adult, I realize now that the most important parts of my education, in terms of creating a well-rounded adult, were only rarely those that took place in a traditional classroom. Honestly, I think many years of sleep-away summer camp, where I learned archery, riflery and other sports not taught in gym class, how to cook over a fire, and how to make friends, were crucial to my development as a person.
It’s so easy as a parent in this NCLB society to put emphasis on creating a *student*. Really, the emphasis should be on developing a *person*.
6.
green girl | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 9:14 am
Amen, sister. I know people who went to very average state schools and now practice law or medicine and they had average childhoods and never took an AP class or excelled in music or any other activity. I also know people to whom so much was given and from whom so much was demanded go on to work at a department store or convenience store. To what end all the madness? There are no guarantees, and you can only give your child the life reflecting what you value most. Some folks value competitiveness and prestige, others value knowledge and experience, and some value catching fireflies on a late summer night without worrying that they need to be a tutoring session at 8 the next morning.
7.
Sarah | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 9:28 am
I’m right with you. My husband works with a woman whose children are actually in the public school system…BUT, she pushes them with five million extra curricular activites, they are running all day and night without ever a break. Summer? Well, they go to camp after camp.
Not only is it financially exhaustive, it’s emotionally exhaustive. I swore when DC was a baby 10 years ago that I wouldn’t ever push him to do anything.
One extra curricular activity at a time. Small overlaps are allowed. So far, it hasn’t been an issue as he only wants to play soccer. Next year we hit fifth grade with more choices.
In my opinion you aren’t encouraging mediocrity at all. You’re encouraging imagination, and most importantly…JOY. Being happy in LIFE, with themselves as they are. They will have their own expectations. My son, raised as you are raising your kids, has set his own expectations…and literally came home in tears because he’d slipped off the A/B honor roll. An expectation we’d not placed on him, EVER.
Our one rule with school is this…”We dont’ care WHAT the grade is. We care if you TRIED.” It’s been wonderful and effective. And I have no regrets that I’m not in the poorhouse just for the sole purpose of placing totally unrealistic expectations on my child.
8.
erin | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 9:59 am
“It has occurred to me that perhaps our thinking is off. That by not pushing our children we are instead encouraging them to be mediocre.”
It sounds like you’re encouraging them to be happy - what could be more important than that? So maybe they won’t go to Harvard or Yale - or maybe they will - either way, they’ll grow up to be happy, well-rounded people. Society can always use more people like that!
9.
tobymine | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 11:05 am
I want my son to do as well as possible without killing him, obviously
I want him to have a normal childhood without worrying about grades - there’s enough time for that in college!
When I was in jr high my mom picked all my classes for me - included AP Physics. Guess what! I flunked! I am so not a left brain person. She pushed me really hard through school, and I am mostly glad she did. I graduated with my Associate’s degree at 17, just before I graduated high school. But because I was working so hard and going so fast, I got burned out. Graduation was 4 years ago and since then I have completed exactly one semester of college honorably (the other two I failed out.)
Now I want to be back in school, but I honestly don’t know if I can handle it. Argh!!
So, I think you are taking the right path. I don’t want to push my kids - burning out is no fun. I can’t believe how intense some of my AP classmates were, and that was 5-6 years ago when we were just sophomores! Yikes.
10.
MomBabe | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 11:28 am
I don’t think you’re doing your children a disservice. Kids need to be kids. they need to grow up on their own time table, when they’re ready. Who cares if your 4 year old can speak 3 different languages? NO ONE, that’s who.
meanwhile, you know how we had our kindergarten evaluation last week? Well, the principle (who is retiring this year) doesn’t think my boy is ready…. However, this is the same lady that taught my sister in 6th grade, and put so much pressure on her, that my baby sister ended up in the hospital due to an ulcer attack. Therefore, I consider her opinion worthless. (Besides, she’s retiring this year anyways. Why on earth would she get a say? Seriously, the politics of the public school. GAH!)
11.
Jan | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 11:45 am
I think you’re on the right (sane) track. This week I had a man in the bookstore asking for an AP Human Geopraphy book for his son. After finding it for him, as asked what grade his sone was in - 8th grade. Amazing. Way too much pressure.
12.
Josie | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 11:50 am
I am all for letting kids be kids and that they have a say in their education.
I have always let WB pick his courses - after discussion and let him decide if he wants the Advanced or General stream.
The end result? He’s well rounded and knows what he wants to do career wise.
You are defintely doing everything right.
13.
alison | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 12:12 pm
I’m on your side with this. My girls are happy in school, the only thing I’ve pushed for so far is that they’re in the French immersion stream rather than the English stream. And that’s not with an eye to getting them into a certain university, it’s just a fact of life here in the Ottawa area that if you don’t speak French, your job opportunities are not as great as if you do. If they grow up and move to Toronto or the States or someplace where French isn’t essential, well, then they know a second language.
We do swimming lessons in the winter, and soccer in the summer. That leaves plenty of time for having friends over for playdates, time to do things as a family, and time for Leah and Rachel to just hang out together. I’m more concerned that they build a good relationship as sisters and friends for life than I am what they’ll do when they grow up.
Whoever corrected your word choice from “mediocre” to “happy” is right on.
14.
alison | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Oh, and just to be clear, they both like French and are happy in their classes. If they were truly unhappy or truly not succeeding, I’d pull them out and put them in English.
15.
blackbird | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Erin is right!
It’s not a choice between mediocrity and pushing - we made a conscious choice to let him be a child - to explore the world and school and his interests.
I overlooked that.
And now - he is an average student with great talent!
16.
barbra | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I don’t get it. Why do people want their children to go to a top-tier school so badly? What do they think their children’s lives will be like after college if they do, or don’t, go to one of the top four?
The Hubby and I both went to Stanford. We absolutely loved it there. I am so glad I went to Stanford, but it would not have been worth a stressed-out childhood. You only get one childhood! You can be a lawyer (or whatever) by doing good work at many, many different colleges.
17.
The Guider | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 2:56 pm
They start at four? At four your biggest choice should be blue paint brush or red paint brush! I mean seriously!
You know I am stressed out about secondary schools already, I admit to that. But we’ll support her in doing as well as she can, then work on what happens next once we know. And she gets about 2-3 hours homework a week if you add up English, Maths, spelling and times tables. An hour or two a night at ten? That is going to be one stressed kid.
18.
Smalltown Mom | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 3:43 pm
You are totally right, and I am handling my sons’ education similarly.
The older one, a senior in high school, took AP courses in the subjects he excelled in, Physics and Calculus. A friend talked him into taking AP Euro and that was a dismal D-. He is going to a junior college this fall for several reasons: 1) the D-, also the D- in English he didn’t make up, which render him ineligible for a UC. 2) He doesn’t really know what he wants to do yet. 3) He can take his dreaded classes (English and History) in a smaller environment. 4) He can save a bunch of money. 5) He can live close to home (he’s not that eager to leave).
Going to a prestigious college is not an issue, it’s what he makes out of his own experience wherever he goes.
I see my younger son doing even better than his brother, but I’m never going to push him into something he doesn’t want. Guide and suggest maybe, but ultimately I respect his opinion.
I’m just proud they are good people.
19.
flutterby | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 4:16 pm
OMG Mermaid’s full AP schedule last semester damn near killed her. And us too. Never again!
20.
Carol | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 7:54 pm
I have to come out of lurking to comment! I live near Charlottesville(in another County) and have never pushed my kids through school. Once my two oldest boys got into High School, my only requirement was that they join a club.My oldest son (a Senior) figured out the minimum he would have to do for a class to pass and did only that. He miscalculated one year, and failed the class,but,, he only got one question wrong on his SOL . He is very stubborn, but also very passionate about what he likes. He is “into computers” but his heart belongs to woodworking. This is his joy. He knows he might not live a life of luxury with his choice, but his choice will make him happy. My younger son is LD. He was diagnosed in the Third grade after I was told that he needed to be held back because of his reading. I knew he had problems with reading, so I asked that he be tested. When the results came back that he was in fact LD, the school wanted to promote him instead. I disagreed and felt that if they were going to hold him back before he was labeled, just having an LD wasn’t an excuse to not learn. We held him back and it was the best thing to do.He now has a wonderful IEP teacher who has gone out of her way to ensure that his opinions and needs are met. She has actually kept him on as her student throughout the years, I think, not only because she believes in him, but because he is geniunely a caring person. He also, has no desire to go to college, but has set his sights on Trade School. He is mechanically inclined and talented musically, this is his passion. My youngest daughter, is very smart and deeply excited about learning. But socially, she is a little immature. Instead of having her skip a grade, we decided that she is right where she needs to be. I have never been to College( I still don’t know what I want to be), but that has never stopped me from learning. The important factors that we need to teach our children are more about accepting themselves and learning what will ultimately make them happy. I get compliments from parents and teachers alike who say that my kids are well spoken, challenging, but all in all their own person. I am proud of them, and all that I can say is they did quite a bit of it on their own. I think if you give them some space, they find out that it is a big world out there, and they can be part of it. If we try to fit them into the “molds” they don’t get the chance to find out what they really want and they burn out. I know this is long winded, but there really are no “right” or “wrong” answers… every child learns differently and I think it’s just up to us to make sure we open as many doors as possible.
21.
Jeanne | Monday, May 12, 2008 at 10:29 pm
I agree with wanting to have a well-rounded, happier child. Alli was a good, but not great student. She excelled at musical theater/dance as her outside activity and loved it. She got into one of the 10 largest universities in the country and they only accepted 48% of their freshman applicants that year.
She had time to go to the beach, make silly videos with her best friend, have sleepovers, babysit for her musical theater teacher.
The top students at their small high school had all AP courses but had trouble getting into their top college choices because they never had outside activities or summer jobs or anything remotely interesting to write for essays on their college applications. All they had ever done was study.
We expected her to do all her schoolwork and do it to the best of her ability. I think she turned out OK.
22.
Domestically Challenged | Tuesday, May 13, 2008 at 6:17 am
“encouraging mediocrity” - no you are just raising them NORMALLY - it’s all the pushy Uber Mothers who have got it wrong.
My Girls go to a private, very academic school, it’s very privillaged…
BUT, the head encourages them to have fun, and have choices - they really push making choices for the future that leave you with choices at 40 - and I think that’s spot on, at 14 you have no clue as to how your life will be at 30 or 40, to have choices is key.
They are encouraged to join in things at school, and stay behind to do clubs after school - yoga, singing etc - and don’t get me wrong there are pushy mothers…..we just don’t join the pushy mummies - there are plenty of Mums who don’t believe in thrusting their kids foward and think children should be just that….for as long as possible!
….and breathe…..feel much better now!!!! Thanks for shooting from the hip again Jen!
23.
The Girl Next Door | Wednesday, May 14, 2008 at 2:20 pm
OMG I live in that DC suburb area and have been vexed by these overachievers since..forever. Having been somewhat of an overachiever but by my own choice, I have longed to let my kids PLAY after school instead of do homework since KINDERGARTEN (I kid you not sadly). We have limited the kids to 1 activity or sport plus music. That’s all. No double sports. No creative arts classes. No evening or summer academic “get thee ahead” classes. I admit the kids are now in private school for high school, mostly because despite being on the “top 100 schools” list nationally, our local school also had gang violence. Um, no thanks. The kids have friends at school, take top classes, do sports, but we have tried to let them choose their classes. We’ve always discussed opportunities with them. Sometimes we have to try to talk them down from too many advanced classes. I was annoyed when the kids, in early 6th grade, had to choose between band and something else fun. So my daughter has never had a fun art or computer class. But she now wants to major in flute (and spanish for the practical) so the band was worth it. Many military and otherwise non-permanent folks here have told me that this is the most competitive place they have ever lived, hands down. I hate it. I’d move but it’s “too late.” Although as soon as the kids graduate in 2.1 years, I am totally out of here - and they can’t wait either. They want to finish out school here now that they’re juniors, but yuck. I think you’re doing fine!!